Episode 56: Laura Belgray
Laura Belgray: Again, it is, it is a book about doing things your own way and taking the long kind of windy circuitous route to success and finding yourself.
Jessica Fowler: Welcome back to What Your Therapist Is Reading. I'm your host, Jessica Fowler. Today we are talking with Laura Belgray. Laura is an award winning copywriter, founder of Talking Shrimp, and author of Tough Titties: On Living Your Best Life When You're the F-ing Worst. She's written TV spots for clients like NBC, Fandango, and Bravo, and she helps entrepreneurs find words that make buyers go bananas. Her course with Marie Forleo, The Copy Cure, helps you find your voice and sell your anything. Take a listen as we talk about her book, which explores her coming of age story and finding her way in adulthood. After today's episode, make sure you share this with somebody who may have been or is currently struggling to find their way in adulthood. And head on over to social media @TherapyBooksPodcast to learn about the latest giveaway. And as always, the information shared in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only.
Welcome, Laura.
Laura Belgray: Thank you so much, Jessica. It's great to be here.
Jessica Fowler: Well, I am excited to talk about this book, but we always start with this question. Can you share a memory of how reading has impacted you?
Laura Belgray: Yeah, you know, my first thought was, Like oh talk about Judy Bloom and all the books that I poured over um as a I think I'd say sixth grader ,seventh grader and which I loved like I always loved being absorbed by a book but um really the most I'd say high impact moment that I can think of is reading Jackie Collins book Lucky, Lucky and Chances which were trash, but really good trash I read them during college freshman year of college.
I came home from vacation for winter break and I had a boyfriend at the time at home not in college and I was had intended to spend those two weeks with him spending, you know, hanging out with him um, and I was so absorbed in these Jackie Collins books I could not put them down and I realized that I would rather be reading them than with him and It basically precipitated a breakup.
Jessica Fowler: So it really did impact you And you're like real life.
Laura Belgray: Exactly. So, I mean that is my favorite state to be in is just obsessed with a book There's nothing better even though I love a show. I love a tv show, but a book is just a another level um, maybe because we're taught that reading is above, above all else, but uh, yeah, I feel like if if I don't want to if I would rather be reading a book than spending time with a person , then maybe I shouldn't be with that person.
Jessica Fowler:That makes a lot of sense. I agree about being in the book. I feel like my, my husband will just be like, oh, and here we go again. It's like, as soon as there's a moment, I'm like on the couch or, you know, I'm like hysterically crying. We'll be driving. I'll listen to an audio book. And like this just happened a few weeks ago. He's like, um, can you talk to me next time? Because it's really lonely. He's like, well, your two choices are me over there crying into my book or me like pretending to break and, you know, yelling about warning you about the car that's breaking, you know, forever ahead of us. So those are your two choices.
Jessica Fowler: Oh, you hit your imaginary break when you're, oh yeah. Or I like, you know, put my arm out cause I'm afraid that something he's like, we're fine. We're fine. And we are because it's really like forever. Yeah.
Laura Belgray: Yeah. No, I think that's a good choice. I think the right choice is let you read, let you listen to your book. Wait, what book was it? I have to know.
Jessica Fowler: Oh, so this particular one was the Women by Kristen Hanna.
Laura Belgray: Oh, everybody recommends that. Everybody's obsessed with that book. It was a really a weeper, huh?
Jessica Fowler: There is, there are some parts that you, uh, well, I did. I mean, I would say it was probably uncontrollable. Um, so he just wanted someone to talk to while driving and it just wasn't going to be me in that moment.
Laura Belgray: Nope.
Jessica Fowler: So what is your hope with your book? Because this brought up some emotions for me too.
Laura Belgray: Oh, it did. I'm glad to hear that. I want to hear all about it. Um, my hope for my book is that it will help people feel less alone if they feel like they're a late bloomer, behind in life, stuck, um, just. Somebody who cannot get with the supposed to's and the should's and hitting the right milestones on the right timeline and doing, doing life the quote, right way. Um, so it's for, it's for all those people. And I consider it also a big permission slip to be a hundred percent you.
Jessica Fowler: That's exactly how I read the book, that even, I think at the very end, you kind of even say like you're unapologetically you, and then you kind of have a little funny thing at the end about that, but it really is, like, even the title, Tough Titties, like that's, like, you're just, you can tell it's you, but it is, it's this journey of you kind of finding you, but being you all at the same time.
Laura Belgray: Yes, that's very well put because there was a lot of like trying to find my thing and find myself and like, who am I, but at the same time, um, insisting on being who I am.
Jessica Fowler: Yes. Can you share, cause some kind of come to me like off the top of my head, but something like an example of what that looks like for the listeners?
Laura Belgray: Yeah. Okay. So, um, just think of one, like the first chapter that comes to mind for some reason is, uh, called self-help night in, um, self-help night, self-help night near the Midtown Tunnel. And it's about getting involved with this help, with this group. I was just trying to find my thing. I was in my thirties and feeling really stuck, just in a creative rut and still didn't feel like I had found my thing career wise. And so, I got involved with this group that I thought would help me find that and help me figure out who I am and what I should do with my talents and, um, feel, you know, in the moment feel like I was really just living life the way you're supposed to live life. And I realized after a good year and a half of being with them that it was, I mean, it was just a creepy, creepy group and the leaders were creepy and, um, there was some cult like stuff about it. So after about a year and a half, I was like, this is so not me. And I finally left and leaving was so liberating.It made me feel like, oh, I found myself.
Jessica Fowler: I love that. That idea, right? So when you're thinking of like finding yourself and I think a lot of people can relate to this, like, can I purchase this thing? Like you talk about going on retreats, like, can I even afford to do this? I'm going to do this. Is this going to change me and trying to fit in even in that, um, you know, give some examples like of how this impacted me, but it really didn't, but being afraid to even say something and then being like, no, this isn't, this isn't for me. I'm not going to do this anymore.
Laura Belgray: Yeah, because you would be in a situation like that, you're rewarded for speaking the way they want you to speak using their language instead of saying you're upset, you're dialing an upset, um, and you're not feeling great, you're feeling well in yourself, et cetera, or anything that you don't like is, uh, not aligned with my preferences.
So. There's so much squishy language like that, and you're rewarded for using it and kind of shot down when you don't, or when you say something that goes against what they, what they believe, um, or doesn't give the right impression to the group, and there's a lot of pressure to fit in, even when you don't want to, like every fiber of my being was like, ew, this is not me. I don't want to fit in here. But at the same time, I did, cause I liked the reward of, you know, being praised and being told that I'm, that I'm doing awesome. You know?
Jessica Fowler: And that, like, was throughout the whole book, which I think is what people can relate to, right? You start with middle school, and then even to, I don't mean it's not necessarily now, but your adulthood, right, and this idea of trying to fit in, but this isn't me, and I'm not gonna, I'm not going to do that. And I thought, even if people didn't relate to the story per se, right? Like they didn't relate to your life. Like you grew up in New York City. I did not grow up in New York City. Like, I can't relate to that. Can't relate to the places that you went to. But the idea of wanting to fit in as a middle schooler that people can totally relate to in that way or like the dating, being treated a certain way not kindly sometimes or wanting, right, like all of those things that people can relate to like that part was I can I can see how that impacted her and what she did. And just kind of get something out of it in a funny way. Like the book is very funny. Um, I give a little warning, I guess it's called Tough Titties. You talk like that throughout the whole book, but there's your, your warning.
Laura Belgray: And then some, right. It's an earmuffs situation. If you're listening to the, to the audio, uh, with kids, with little kids around.
Jessica Fowler: Definitely, definitely. But just that idea of pure normal struggles that I think people. So even if you're at work, maybe your job is different than others, but trying to just find your way and what you want to be and how to do that. Like I loved the whole, I, you know, working as a bartender and then knowing what you wanted to do and figuring that out. Like, oh, people do, right. You're doing copy. People do this for a living. Like they watch TV and make copy. Like that's, that's what you want it to do.
Laura Belgray: Right. Well, I was always looking for a way to be to be paid to be myself and also also to be paid to watch tv Um, that was that was the dream but while bartending like that, that was something that I wanted to do while I figured out what I wanted to do and It was to me the pinnacle of cool and social power to be a bartender because I would see bartenders and like people would have, you know, fist full of dollars. They were waving around hoping to get the bartender's attention, like just hoping, will I be the one they serve next? And the bartender gets to stand back there and just, uh, hold all the cards. And so, I thought that was going to confer all this coolness and power on me, which it didn't. I got fired from both bartending jobs that I had.I was terrible at it.
Jessica Fowler: That's okay.
Laura Belgray: Yeah, but the middle school thing. I mean it, it starts with that a chapter called Beth Fishbone likes this um, which is about my uh, you know my sixth grade bully and how she stole my best friend and then made my life 11 you just my whole year a living hell, uh, and then looking back at that from um as I as I find her on facebook. This was a few, this was pre Instagram, but, um, you know, stalking her on Facebook and from, and gathering clues that, that support my hope that she would be entirely unremarkable now.
And, uh, and, and the reason it was such a, uh, such a living hell. Everybody knows this. Anyone who's been bullied or been the uncool one, the disliked one, especially in middle school is that like, that's when you first find out that for most of us, that one person disliking you can really ruin your life. And it's something that I had to spend all the, all the rest of my years unlearning, because if you go through life, just trying to be like, and making sure that you're not disliked. You're never going to be yourself and you're not going to amount to much or create anything. It's really great . And um, I think that like the key to success in later in life, in adulthood, in, um, any creative career, any career in general is standing out, going against the grain, not being the easy, no brainer choice that's just like everybody else, um, not fitting in, what blending in is the kiss of death when you're older, but when you're in middle school, it is everything, and so it's a hard thing to unlearn.
Jessica Fowler: Definitely. And that's what I mean. I think it's right. That's what people can relate to that idea. I'm sure most people have probably looked up somebody from their past on Facebook. You know, it's, it happens and it was just, you know, and you do it in that funny way. You know, not making sure you're not using her real name and just joking about it in the book. That's what I mean, like using the humor out of it. I thought it was entertaining and funny. Um, so I've read this book and tell me if this is, if you would say this is true, is almost like each chapter is almost like a short story.
Laura Belgray: Yeah. I would say that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that technical word would be essay. Um, it, it, it was sold as a collection of essays, but that sounds, unless you're a fan of essays, like, and know what they are, it sounds so dry and boring. So I rarely talk about it as a book of essays. Like David Sedaris writes essays and they're hilarious and that's just what I love to read. Um, same with Samantha Irby. I don't know if you've read her. Which is amazingly funny, um, but yeah, I would, you could say they are stories. Each one is a story on its own, that can live on its own, but they are chronologically linked.
Jessica Fowler: I mean it makes sense as a book because you go through your life, but yeah, like each one it felt like just a new topic and it was like, I don't know, they were just funny entertaining things to read about your life.
Laura Belgray: Thank you.
Jessica Fowler: I enjoyed also too that, um, your dad is a therapist.
Laura Belgray: Yes, uh, my dad, my dad was a therapist, um, and it was. That's his driving passion. Like he switched careers and I come from a long line of late bloomers. So, he and my mom both switched careers in midlife and he had been at an engineer, an industrial engineer for the airlines, primarily Eastern airline. And when I was little and he was about 40, he switched to being a therapist. He discovered he had done some teaching, some business teaching. And discovered that he liked helping people more than he liked counting, you know, many bottles of liquor, um, and how many were missing on a plane. So, he switched to that career and he was absolutely obsessed with it, obsessed with feeling. Obsessed with psychotherapy, obsessed with Freud, all of it. He was a gung ho therapist.
Jessica Fowler: Because reading that, I was like, hmm, I wonder what my kids are going to say when they're older.
Laura Belgray: Oh yeah. Well, my sister became a therapist, and I, I, I have a feeling she could not have done it until after my dad died like while he was alive she couldn't say I want to be a therapist because it had been pushed on us so much therapy, therapy, therapy and uh, she She loves it. She's doing great in it. And um, and she switched to that recently too like in her uh late 40s around age 50 and she is now very aware of how her you therapy, her like point of view as a therapist might be affecting her kids and her, the things that she says and her. Yeah, her take on feelings and all that. I was like, mom, please. No.
Jessica Fowler: That happens. Why do we have to talk about this? Right.
Laura Belgray: Right. Well, my dad would not let anything go like he would, we would go to a movie and he'd say, how did you like the movie? And I'd say it was good. And he'd say, good. Isn't a feeling. How did you feel about it? How did the movie make you feel? And, um, I would just say, I feel like this, this, this conversation ends here.
Jessica Fowler: That's how you'd handle it.
Laura Belgray: Yeah, pretty much. I don't know. I don't have feelings.
Jessica Fowler: I don't know that I asked that about the movie, but I'm check myself and make sure I don't.
Laura Belgray: Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I hated talking about them. I think it made me guarded as a person. Like I don't, I don't think I really express my feelings that much. In fact, writing the book, that was something that I had to inject throughout. Um, like had to do it a second pass or several passes, putting more feeling into it. Because I just assume from the words, like from the way I depict something that you know how I'm feeling about it, and that's not necessarily true. It's something that you sometimes have to get explicit about. And so that was a real exercise for me.
Jessica Fowler: Oh, that's interesting to know. What else would you say that the readers should know about your book?
Laura Belgray: Uh, I'll just start with like the general what it is, um, if they haven't figured it out by now. It's. Basically, it is a memoir, you can say a memoir in essays, but, uh, we covered that about coming of age in New York in the eighties, nineties, early aughts, kind of up until now, and by way of many, um, social humiliations, dating disasters, work and career fails, which my husband lovingly refers to as loser sex in the city. And that has been the main marketing line. But. Again, it is, it is a book about doing things your own way and taking the long kind of windy circuitous route to success and finding yourself and becoming a person.
Jessica Fowler: And you're vulnerable in this book. Like you share a lot of things that you did and, you know, just the path, maybe that we're often told we're supposed to take right go to school and get a job blah blah blah But you know right like being fired from a job and that was like so there's a lot of vulnerability in there.
Laura Belgray: Thank you. Yeah, and it's um, I would say that I'm kind of a TMI Queen not about my feelings but about things that I have done and been through, like, I don't feel super exposed telling them, but a lot of people react like, wow, you're really brave to talk about that. So I think part, part of it is that I look back on myself as then as a character, like it was another lifetime. It was past me. So, I don't feel so vulnerable and exposed talking about past me. Cause that's a, that's a different person in a way. Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: That makes sense. What would you say are one or two takeaways you would like your readers to walk away with?
Laura Belgray: I would say, I like the, the, one of them is that, what I was talking about before, that, one person disliking you cannot ruin your life unless you're in sixth grade. Now, the key to life is being yourself. And you have to remember that you are never going to be for everyone. Like there is absolutely no person, no brand, no movie, um, TV show, painting artists, recording artists, song album. There's nothing in this world. That is for everyone, for anything that you love and adore and, and are so glad exists or person you're so glad exists, there's somebody out there who's like, eh, not for me. And that is okay, and it's okay if you are not for somebody, so you can't go through life trying to shape yourself to fit in and be for everybody, because you'll never succeed at that. So that is, that is the main thing. Also that I feel like mistakes are generally not regrettable. I mean, I'm sure there are some that are regrettable, but I don't regret, like people ask me if you could go back and tell your younger self, um, give your younger self advice or, uh, keep her from making a mistake, you know, what would you say? And, I say nothing a, because she wouldn't have listened to any sound advice. Um, she had to do what she was going to do. Like if I was going to go through a phase, I had to go through that phase. If I was going to date the wrong guy, like somebody terrible and be in an awful relationship, that shouldn't happen. I was going to do it. And I felt like I had to do it and, and go through with it. Um, so wouldn't have listened, but I also feel like. All of those detours are what got me here.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah, I can see that. And, you know, cause it's it's hard to sit in all of that, right? If you have regrets and all of those things and I think that's just your message of just who you are and accepting who you are and being okay with it. Like I had to do that and this brought me here.
Laura Belgray: Yeah, I think that's, that's exactly it. I had to do that to be here now and I like where I am now.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah. Which you talk about in the book.
Laura Belgray: Yes, exactly.
Jessica Fowler: You like who you are and you like what you do. So that's a good thing.
Laura Belgray: Yeah, I agree. Well, wonderful.
Jessica Fowler: Thank you so much for coming on today. Where is the best place for our listeners to connect with you?
Laura Belgray: I am at talkingshrimp.com. That is my digital home and you'll find the book there um, or you can go to toughtittiesbook.com. It'll lead you to the same place so come over to talking shrimp. com look for book. You'll find it there and other things that you might be interested in if you're a writer or in online business in any way or need to promote yourself. I've got all kinds of ways to help you.
Jessica Fowler: And if you read the book, you will hear the story of why it's called Talking Shrimp.
Laura Belgray: That's correct. Yes, you will.
Jessica Fowler: Great. Well, thank you so much.
Laura Belgray: Thank you.
Jessica Fowler: Thank you for listening to this week's episode of What Your Therapist is Reading. Make sure you head on over to the website or social media to find out about the latest giveaway. The information provided in this program is for educational and informational purposes only, and although I'm a social worker licensed in the state of New York, this program is not intended to provide mental health treatment and does not constitute a patient therapist relationship.
About the author:
Laura is an award-winning copywriter, founder of Talking Shrimp, and author of Tough Titties: On Living Your Best Life When You're the F'ing Worst. (Hachette) She's written TV spots for clients like NBC, Fandango and Bravo; and she helps entrepreneurs find words that make buyers go bananas. Her course with Marie Forleo, The Copy Cure, helps you find your voice and sell your anything.