Episode 05: It Starts with You with Nicole Schwartz, LMFT
Jessica Fowler: Welcome to what your therapist is Reading. I'm your host, Jessica Fowler. Today we're talking with Nicole Schwartz, LMFT about her book. It Starts with You: How Imperfect Parents Can Find Calm and Connection with Their Kids. Nicole is a licensed marriage and family therapist and parent coach with over 15 years experience working with families and children in various settings. She's the owner of Imperfect Families LLC, coaching parents to use positive Respectful Parenting strategies. In this episode Nicole shares about how to move towards more grace-based parenting, meaning give ourselves a little grace as parents and how to maybe tune into ourselves a little bit to figure out what we may need as parents.
So if you're looking for something to be a little less hard on yourself as a parent, take a listen and ask.
And as always the information shared in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only.
I would like to welcome Nicole Schwartz. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast today to talk about your new book, It starts with you. I'm very excited to have this conversation with you today.
Nicole Schwartz: Hi. Thanks so much for having me.
Jessica Fowler: I was wondering if you could start and just share a little bit about yourself.
Nicole Schwartz: Sure. So probably the most important thing is I'm a mom to three girls. My kids are 14, 12, and 8 right now. Um, and then I also run a company called Imperfect Families, where I write about parenting and offer parent coaching one-on-one to people via Zoom all around the world and my message is really, I try to focus on shame free, non-judgmental parenting advice that you can read, get some tips, but not feel horrible about yourself at the end of the, at the end of the article or whatever.
Jessica Fowler: Can you share a little bit more about what you mean by shame free parenting?
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah. I just, I feel like it's not, it's not across the board, but there are some articles that you read and you, you get the sense that if you don't do it this way, you're a bad parent, or in some way you're failing your kids, or failing as a mom or as a parent. And, um, my goal is just really to, I guess, just remind all of us that we're human and we're gonna make mistakes…
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Nicole Schwartz: …and that mistakes are part of the process rather than assignment flawed or failed in some, like a failure in some way. Um, so I guess that's my, um, definition of it. Hopefully that comes across in what people read that hey, you're doing okay. It doesn't mean you're, uh, I guess like don't beat yourself up if you make a mistake or if something doesn't quite go as planned.
Jessica Fowler: That makes sense. Cause I think too, parents now, even just from when I became a parent to now, there's a lot of pressure. Yeah. To do parenting, right? Or to do it a certain way, or you have to follow this way to parent or this way to parent. And I think it can be really overwhelming. There's all this information out there for parents.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: Um, and just reading and you know, anything from how to get them to sleep to how you're gonna get them into the best college and everything in between and I think it can be really overwhelming.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it just misses humanity. Like, Hey, there are gonna be days that you have a work deadline and then your kid throws up in the car on the way to coming home. And I mean, you're, those are not our finest parenting moments usually . And so if we, if we, if we turn those moments into like, ugh, what, I'm such a horrible parent. I'm, I'm feeling , that's not pushing us forward in a positive direction. It's keeping you stuck. And so, yeah, instead of, uh, I need to keep up with all these standards and do all these things that they say I need to do on social media. Let's just say, Hey, some days you're gonna kill it as a parent. Some days it's gonna bomb, and that's life. So.
Jessica Fowler: I think in the book you called it grace based parenting.
Nicole Schwartz: Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: I love that term. Yeah. Just giving yourself some grace.
Nicole Schwartz: Right? Yeah. Let's make some room in our language, and in how we talk about parenting for mistakes and not letting that define us. So, grace, compassion, whatever word speaks to you.
Jessica Fowler: What made you decide to read this book?
Nicole Schwartz: Probably some of the things that I've already said. I mean, I just felt like there was, I don't know. I felt like some of the parenting literature that I was reading just left me feeling worse as a parent, and so I think it was just my desire to help people embrace some of this grace-based parenting and some of this imperfection. Um, and just share another outlook, mm-hmm, which is kind of includes mistakes as part of being a great parent.
Jessica Fowler: So, the title of your book is, It Starts with You.
Nicole Schwartz: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: Do you wanna share a little bit about that and what that means to you in the, for this book.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah. So, this wasn't the original title that I had planned for the book, but my, um, editor came back and just said, you, you know, this is a theme that's coming up over and over and over in what you write. And so, um, I, I sat with it and my concern is that people will see it as well. It starts with you, so you better not make any mistakes. But my intention is, hey, instead of saying, hey kids, you need to, you know, get your act together, not yell, get along, share all these things. We as parents need to practice those skills first before we can teach them to our kids. And sometimes that means addressing our history or, um, triggers or things that are going on for us, and that that is an important part of parenting. And that often we kind of push that to the side, but in reality, starting with us is such a great way to give, um, it's just like a gift we can give it to our kids where we can say, hey, I'm not gonna pass down this generational thing that we've always done, I'm gonna do it differently, but first starts with me. I need to think this through and figure out how to do this a different way before I can expect you guys, my kids to do it better, or differently.
Jessica Fowler: Well, it's changing the conversation instead of what did my child do?
Nicole Schwartz: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: To, okay, what's going on? That's triggering me…
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: …in this moment. Right. How do I take care of myself? Yeah. Have some self-compassion for the way that I may have behaved…
Nicole Schwartz: mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: …to be able to deal with it, you know, and learn how to deal with it in a different way in the future.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: And I love that.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah. Yeah. I felt like a lot of times it's focused, I, I just call it fix my kid.
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Nicole Schwartz: Just get them. If they wouldn't do this behavior, then I could keep my cool like, yeah, that would be amazing. We would be all be great parents, we are great parents, but we, you know, we would all be able to do those things that we wanna do, but instead we do have to kind of flip that. So instead of like, how can I get them to listen or whatever it might be, how can I speak in a way that encourages them to listen?
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Nicole Schwartz: But that's a. Big shift. It, it's, it takes a mature person to be willing to slip that conversation.
Jessica Fowler: I think that too, but I think also it's just the idea…
Nicole Schwartz: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: …that maybe I could take some time and look at myself and understand how…
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: I am as a person who might be impacting my parenting.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: Because you're right. I don't think a lot of time the focus is on the parents. It's…
Nicole Schwartz: ah huh,
Jessica Fowler: …you know, just in society in general. It's the baby, you know, or the toddler or the kid…
Nicole Schwartz: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: …and taking that time for ourselves as parents to really understand like, okay, there might be a reason of the way that I am, or I might be stressed out, or…
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: You know, maybe I learned this or maybe I should know some of my triggers.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think that's what my hope is, and maybe I probably didn't say it clearly, but I just, there's no space for that. Well ,we need to be intentional about making space for that.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah.
Nicole Schwartz: I think is what I'm trying to say. And that you deserve to take that space and that that's good and and needed in your parenting to just pause and cuz we can't think about those things like what did I react or what was I triggered by in that…
Jessica Fowler: mm-hmm.
Nicole Schwartz: …situation if we're just like going along with our parenting and never pausing and taking a, a breath to think through some of those questions.
Jessica Fowler: At the end of each chapter, I love that you have those questions. Um, it starts with you to have the reflection for whatever topic you were talking about in the chapter.
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah. Yeah. I know it's easy to brush over those questions and it's totally okay if you, if you don't do any of the questions, but I really, they're there if you need them and if you want some guidance as far as where to start thinking about some of these things.
Jessica Fowler: I think that's the therapist and both of us like, oh, self-reflection questions.
Nicole Schwartz: Right? Yeah. (laughter). Right.
Jessica Fowler: Let's think about this.
Nicole Schwartz: Right. Slow down a little bit. Just just pause. Just be in that for just a moment. Absolutely. For sure.
Jessica Fowler: I also love that you bring the brain into it.
Nicole Schwartz: Mmm.
Jessica Fowler: Those are my favorite kind of parenting books.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah. Yeah. When I started doing parent education, I don't know, 15 or 20 years ago, there was no discussion about the brain and so we, I just felt like we were, I mean, I didn't know it at the time that that's what we were missing, but I'm so thankful that now people are talking about it and we can say, it's not an excuse or an scapegoat or anything, it's just saying, Hey, this is how your brain is wired and this impacts your behavior. And I, I'm so excited to see how that research develops even in the next 20 years, what more we can learn.
Jessica Fowler: Absolutely.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: Who would you say your book is for? What parents out there should be reading this book?
Nicole Schwartz: Oh, that's interesting. So, I think as I was writing it, I really had an image in my head of a person that's kind of like me, someone who's has struggled with shame in the past or focuses on imperfections in their own lives. Um, but what I'm hearing from people is that, people from, in all different jobs and, and, uh, stages of parenting are finding benefit from it. So, I've heard from teachers and grandparents as well as parents. Um, so it's, my intention was, I guess I wrote it to moms and, um, I usually focus on 12 and under, so that might also be a good audience, but I'm hearing from parents of teens who are saying they're finding it helpful. So, um, I'm really thrilled that people are, that it, it's reaching a broader audience than I even really intended.
Jessica Fowler: That's good to hear. I would actually add probably for people before they even have kids, right.
Nicole Schwartz: Oh interesting.
Jessica Fowler: Doing some of that work and exploring that part about yourself before even becoming a parent. I don't know if you've noticed this in your work, but I have that,I think that there's things that we may have thought that we've dealt with that all of a sudden we become a parent and we're like,
Nicole Schwartz: yeah,
Jessica Fowler: Oh, that's still around, or…
Nicole Schwartz: right.
Jessica Fowler: …Oh, that's stressing me out. That, you know,
Nicole Schwartz: yeah.
Jessica Fowler: Bad habit I had when I'm stressed out is coming back again. Cuz now life looks different.
Nicole Schwartz:Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: That kind of thing.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I. . Yeah. I, I was just thinking as you were saying that like, and maybe read it once and then read it in 5 or 10 years when you're, that stuff comes up again cuz parenting tweens and teens, definitely…
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Nicole Schwartz: …stirs up some new emotions that I didn't deal with when they were younger. So.
Jessica Fowler: So, interesting how that happens, isn't it? , right?
Nicole Schwartz: Right? Yep. Mm-hmm. . So it's life with kids.
Jessica Fowler: It is. It is. Yeah. What would you say, if you could pick one or two things you would like your readers to walk away with? What would that be after finishing this book.
Nicole Schwartz: I really would love for people to feel seen and known and that they are not alone in this parenting and that the mistakes that you make in parenting, like I said before, they don't define you as a total package of a person and a parent.
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Nicole Schwartz: Um, and so if you can read the book and feel encouraged and also practice giving yourself compassion in those, you know, messy moments that are gonna happen in parenting, then um, I think that is, I would love for that message to get through.
Jessica Fowler: I think it does get through.
Nicole Schwartz: Oh, thank you.
Jessica Fowler: Think it's really important. It is. Um, you know, if it starts with, you, I love that title.
Nicole Schwartz: Hmm. Thank you.
Jessica Fowler: Because I do think it does, you know, it starts with parents and having that, but you do it in such a way that is about that grace, that compassion, you know, doing it for your kids. And having it for your kids and your parenting, but really the message being, as parents, we need to have compassion for ourselves in these moments.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: Um, cuz parenting is hard and we can't do it perfect all the time.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: It's just, you know, it's not possible.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: But learning that about ourselves and learning how to support ourselves, you know, we can just, you know, feel better about ourselves instead of beating ourselves up all the time. You know, yelling at our kid for being late or whatever.
Nicole Schwartz: Right? Yeah. And I, I feel like self-compassion opens you up to moving forward, whereas shame and judgment kind of keeps you stuck.
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Nicole Schwartz: And so, you know, start here and then move forward and then, you know, learn some new strategies or do whatever. But I think until we address kind of how we talk to ourselves about those mistakes and those challenges in a kind way.
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Nicole Schwartz: It really keeps you stuck. And so I'm hoping that this is kind of an avenue for people to begin, you know, one step at a time. Oops. Forward. Um
Jessica Fowler: It's, I say that all the time too and on this podcast people are probably gonna hear me talk about self-compassion a lot.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah.
Jessica Folwer: But it, I agree. I think it's that idea that the harder we are on ourselves, right. We try to do that cuz we think it's gonna get us to do more or be better or whatever.
Nicole Schwartz: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: But it's not until we slow down and have the compassion for ourselves…
Nicole Schwartz: mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: …is what's gonna get us unstuck.
Nicole Schwartz:Right.
Jessica Fowler: It's gonna start to change us when we can be kinder to ourselves.
Nicole Schwartz: Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. I don't think it, it wasn’t modeled well for me and I don't think in our society yet, although maybe, maybe the things are shifting.
Jessica Fowler: Well, thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate it. And for our listeners, feel free to pick up the book. It starts with you, how imperfect families, how imperfect parents can find calm and connection with their kids.
Nicole Schwartz: Thank you.
Jessica Fowler: Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of What your Therapist is Reading. Make sure you head on over to the website or social media to find out if there's a giveaway going. The information provided in this program is for educational and informational purposes only, and although I'm a social worker license in the state of New York, this program is not intended to provide mental health treatment and does not constitute a patient therapist relationship.