Episode 04: Carrie Leaf, MS, LMFT
Jessica Fowler: Welcome to What Your therapist is Reading. I'm your host, Jessica Fowler LCSW. This week you talking to Carrie Leaf, MS. LMFT, her book, Therapize Yourself, Choose to Heal and Find Your Truth: A Step by Step Program to Bringing Out the Best Version of You by Integrating them Mind, Body, and Spirit.Carrie Leaf is a practicing psychotherapist and life coach. She has been working within this field for the last 15 years. She's completed her master's degree in marriage and family therapy. She's worked in a wide variety of settings and currently is in private practice. She has helped and supported a wide variety of individuals from all ages and around many different identified problems as well as couples, families, and groups.
Please note the information shared in this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only.
Hello, listeners. Welcome back. Today we're talking to Carrie Leaf about her book, Therapize Yourself. Choose to Heal and Find Your Truth. Welcome, Carrie.
Carrie Leaf: Hi. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.
Jessica Fowler: I'm very excited to talk to you today about your book. I was wondering though if you could share a little bit about yourself for our listeners.
Carrie Leaf: Sure. Um, I have been in the field of psychology for, gosh, 15 years or more now. Um, practicing private practice and, and, um, post grad school for over a decade. Um, I've worked in a handful of different settings. Um, National Guard, Universities, substance abuse, residential, um, all across the board. And I'm now in private practice, um, and really centered around EMDR therapy and identifying negative beliefs, clearing things out, mindset along those lines.
Jessica Fowler: So you talk a little bit about EMDR therapy in your book. So I was wondering, since you brought that up, is that something you can explain to our listeners who are not aware of what EMDR is.
Carrie Leaf: Yeah, EMDR therapy, eye movement, desensitization, reprocessing. Um, it was a training I took way back when I was doing residential treatment, um, mainly because I was working with a lot of trauma there and EMDR was initially best known for working with trauma. Um, I use it for everything and there's more studies now to use it for a lot of different things, but, let's see. To sum it up, I always struggle to share and explain what it is, even though I probably do this multiple times a week. But, um, in a nutshell where I we're starting with a problem you may be working on and we're identifying what the negative beliefs system is behind that problem. And you know, it's kind of not exactly like it is talk based therapy intertwined, but then there's also kind of step by step we have, we know step one, step two, step three, we have a process that we're gonna go through. Identifying that negative belief, tying it back to experiences and memories in your your life. We're gonna do a timeline of your life and tie those back, and then we're gonna work on clearing out and reprocessing those experiences to get to a positive belief system moving forward. So we wanna identify what negative belief system is holding us back in life or creating issues in relationships work where wherever you might be struggling, identify that negative belief system and through that process we'll clear it out and reprocess it to a positive belief system.
Jessica Fowler: Oftentimes, I think either in our field and other people hear EMDR and they think of the eye movements and just to know that there's an eight phase process. It's not just about eye movements. And that's a lot of what you do in the book and you talk about is, you know, the history taking, right? Looking at the experiences and working on and understanding the cognitive, um, processes that's happening, whether it's the negative beliefs and identifying and just kind of doing that work to dig in to figure out where they came from and how do you work on changing them.
Carrie Leaf: Yes. I think you know, you, you mentioned the assessment and I think that to me, getting a very thorough, aside from EMDR, this is just, it doesn't matter what I'm seeing you for, you know, getting a very thorough assessment, mind, body, spirit, all the areas in the life that's just, key and crucial to me. There are a few people where EMDR just, you know, hasn't been the best bit for whatever reasons, but it tends to be, you know, it tends to work for a lot of people across the board, like I said, for a lot of different issues. I find myself using it for anxiety a lot.
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Carrie Leaf: But regardless, even, even prior to starting an EMDR process, that really thorough assessment is, is a big deal to me. It's crucial in taking a holistic approach and looking at every area, mind, body, and spirit also matters a lot to me.
Jessica Fowler: Yes, I, when I was reading this book, um, the beginning or the whole book is very much what I think of happens in the therapy room, especially in the beginning, it is that digging in and looking at all the areas of life, um, and how it's impacting you and you know, what you've tried, what you're doing to cope. Maybe it's healthy, maybe it's unhealthy, and just taking a look at that and seeing what can be done differently.
Carrie Leaf: Yes. A lot. Well, you're, you're right like it, the beginning of the book, but like the whole book really is that beginning phase. It's, you know, I kind of look at the book as it's really for anybody. I mean, I can pick it up and reassess my life and how I'm doing, you know, and I'm in the field and I wrote it, and it's still gonna benefit me to pick it up and be like, okay. Where am I? Where am I kind of slacking or lacking? What area am I not paying attention to in my life? Those kind of things. But it was really written for either the people that have never been in therapy or coaching or, or asked for professional help before, or the people that are kind of just starting to dip their toes and wonder about like, okay, I need some help, but I, I just wanna like and explore. And I don't, you know, the, the therapy process can be big and scary and overwhelming. Just taking that first step to make the call or walk in the door the first time can be difficult. Um, and so I really wanted it to be that stepping-stone from somebody, for somebody who's, I'm not sure what this is like, but I'm kind of ready to get started, and it'll give you an idea to get started, what it's like to begin in therapy, but also to empower yourself to work on your own things outside of therapy, either prior to jumping in or revisiting during while you're in therapy or maybe you've, you know, maintained and you're not in therapy. Maybe it's after therapy, you can really jump in and look at the book at any point, but I like it as that stepping stone, um, for somebody that's not quite sure, but they're, they're ready and they're curious. It hopefully, you know, kind of demystifies that, that process of what is therapy and what's that gonna be like, and hopefully, you know, it doesn't have to be then is scary when somebody would take that step.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah, that's exactly how I look at it. I think that's a good. To think about it, like demystify this idea of what actually happens in the therapy room, and here's a good example of this is where it's gonna start. Here are some things that we're gonna look at, right? Whatever's going on for that person. But hey, let's look at all of these areas. Here's, you know, you have great, um, at the end where you can take notes. You have great questions, and just time for, you know, whoever's reading the book to take time to process what they're working through. So, I think that that's great too.
Carrie Leaf: Yeah, admittedly I'm pretty terrible at journaling or taking the time to put pen to paper, so I found it kinda funny that I, I put this in there, but I have a lot of clients that are pretty great at it and prefer it and like it, and I wish I was better at it. I know when I sit down and put the pen to paper how it can unravel and clear our thoughts, right? And so it is one of those steps in, in the book that if you're gonna sit down and read this, sure, you can skim it and you can skip over and you, you don't have to write the things down, but it's kind of a testament to, if I take the time to answer the questions and actually write them down. I'm a little more committed. I'm a little more willing to dig in and actually like, look at myself that much deeper than if I'm just kind of skimming through and, and you know, passively thinking about it. And so, you know, if I were to pick up this book myself, it would be a challenge for me in a good way of like, okay, let me, let me sit down and actually do the work. Right?
Jessica Fowler: Well, it could be done two ways. I look at that, well, probably more than two ways, but one, I think there, right, there are people out there who enjoy writing and that that can be very therapeutic to them. But it's also, it just gives you thinking. So maybe you're not writing it down, but you have these questions and you're going through them with whoever's reading the book. And so, you know, it gives that that opportunity to at least process what's happening.
Carrie Leaf: Absolutely. At the very least, I see it as that step one, right. Step one, stepping stone. So baby steps.
Jessica Fowler: What do you think is a couple takeaways you would like for people to, when they pick up this book to walk away with?
Carrie Leaf: A big one is that holistic approach that I stress. Um, I think that people are starting to integrate and connect more now. Um, slowly but surely, but I know in a lot of, you know, therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, physicians, you know, MD’S across the board, like we're not necessarily trained in a holistic approach. And there it's just so crucial to look at the mind, the body, the soul, all of it together, each area. Because so many times, you know, we think we're working with a mental health issue when really it could be a physical issue the other way around. We could sit here and also say, I feel fantastic health wise, mind and body, so what am I missing? Something, I'm still not happy. What's wrong? You know, we're not attaining, attending to the sole side of it of things. Um, so that holistic approach that we really, you know, you can't come to therapy, you know twice a week, once a week, seven times a week, and outdo eating, you know, sugar and, uh, fast food and not having any physical movement. And, you know, you can't, you can't do that, or you can't have, you know, the, the perfect physical, um, health and not attend to mental health and feel and balance, you know, we've got to attend to all of them. Um, that, that balance between 'em is key. We're happiest when we're fully integrated and know who we are, and we're taking care of ourselves and we're respecting and loving ourselves, and there's a lot of areas that make up who we are. So, to completely ignore we're gonna feel like there's a void we're gonna feel at a whack off balance.
Jessica Fowler: Any other takeaways you would like your readers to walk away with?
Carrie Leaf: Um, I think the second one would be really, uh, you know, it is a self-help book. I'm promoting getting in for professional help, but it's also a self-help book. And so therefore, regardless if you're doing it on your own or you end up asking for professional help, I still want to empower each person that you are your own best self-healer. You know, no therapist, no coach, no doctor is going to heal you or fix you. You don't walk in and they cure you. You're the one doing the work. You've gotta show up. And not only do you have to show up to your appointments, but you could show up to your appointments and talk about the weather all day and not really get very far right or stay very surface level. Um, you know, hopefully your therapist won't let you talk about the weather at all time, (laughter) but you know, you could stay surface level, you know? So, you gotta dig in, you gotta be honest. You gotta face yourself. You also have to do the work outside of therapy. And so really, I just wanna empower people to know that they're the only ones that are the experts on themselves. They're the only ones that can heal themselves. You're not going to find a magical therapist. You can do it. You're the one and so I want people to believe in themselves and trust in themselves and, and just feel empowered that.
Jessica Fowler: In the book you share a little bit about your own experience. I was wondering if you could share a little bit with our listeners today.
Carrie Leaf: Yeah, so I did my own EMDR. Some of it you have to do, you have to go through having EMDR done on you, um, during the training, but I also, um, went through my own EMDR outside of the training with another therapist as well. Um, and so it was kind of, it was kind of shocking or eye opening as to, I'm sitting there thinking that the issue…okay, so I, I started with, um, it's in my book. I started with… In the training I wasn't really sure what to work on. Um, I was young. I felt like things are pretty good, you know, I was there. I didn't feel like I had major things to address. I was single. So, I was like, well, I haven't been doing so well in the dating world, um, and so I started with that issue and, um, I remember kind of being blown away thinking there wasn't really much there, you know, well, we'll just see. But, um, thinking there wasn't much there and kind of being blown away with some of the stuff from my past that it, that resurfaced and that it brought up and out and I was like, woo. I really thought that I had dealt with that and healed that, you know? And If I were, if I were the therapist looking in, I think I would've easily known like, No, you, you really didn't deal with that at all, but we're so blinded to our own stuff. I thought that had been enough time that I, you know, this, this my ex, you know, this is what resurface things from my ex. Um, and I thought that, oh gosh, he doesn't even cross my mind like that doesn't even bother me to think about him. But as we start digging into the negative belief and the issues, you know, that relationship kept resurfacing, um, a lot more than I thought it would. And so it, it was really an eyeopener to how we can, um, suppress a lot of things. Yeah, I think we've worked on a lot of things. Um, just because it doesn't cross our mind off and, and realize how much something from the past can truly be affecting our present-day life, you know, subconsciously a lot bigger than we would even have a clue if we didn't sit down and dig in and do this work. So that was a really big deal and a really big eye opener for me. Once I sat there and got into it, you know, I was able to clear out pretty quickly because it was, in the past, it wasn't like, wasn't really high on, on the level of disturbance to me. Um, but it was certainly there and it, it, it was blocking and it needed to, it needed to get cleared out for me to feel um, differently about me and who I am and look at myself in a, in a more positive light. So, it was helpful to pull that up and clear it out, and now I get to see that happen, you know, left and right all the time with the clients in my practice, it's, you know, people will kind of come back and talk about it feeling like magic, like after reprocessing session. It's not magic, you know, but it is kind of mind blowing how, how, um, how powerful it can be.
Jessica Fowler: Well, and I think it's important to point out, right? Well, a couple things. One, so something that EMDR does, and then you kind of begin to look at that process in the book is those negative cognitions. So those often are, right, I'm not good enough, I'm not worthy. Right. Kinda the theme, which what I see, right? There's usually like a theme that somebody may struggle with, and so that's something that EMDR can help with. But also I just wanna point out that EMDR is one form of therapy, right? That can help with these things. There's other forms of therapy that can be just as effective.
Carrie Leaf: Yes. And I, I, EMDR is kind of my, um, jam. It's like my bread and butter, but naturally it's always kind of intermixed with a handful of other, I mean, it's right in line with CBT, um, but pulling and coaching and, and, uh, working on coping skills, I mean, it is never a standalone in that sense. No theoretical model generally is right. Um, but yeah. It's kind of my go to, but it's often, yes mixed in with a handful of other approaches.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah. I think probably most therapists are like that pulling from different therapies. Right. Depending on what's going on in the room.
Carrie Leaf: Right.
Jessica Fowler: But I thought it was important to talk about, cause you do talk about it in your book, but also your book is standalone, right? Like, here's a book that you can pick up and you can just explore and start that process for yourself, whether by yourself or with a therapist.
Carrie Leaf: Yes. And I should clarify in the book, you're, you're not a, you're not actually going through EMDR. We're just kind of setting you up to what that's gonna be like, you know? The assessment process to jumping in therapy, questions I'll ask things I'll look for, um, and then starting to set up what it would be like to begin to set up EMDR, identifying a problem, identifying a negative belief, going through a timeline of where that negative belief has, you know, stood out. Um, and then the next step, you know, would be reprocessing, but that's not something that you would do…
Jessica Fowler: Yes.
Carrie Leaf: …through reading the book. That's something you would wanna jump into therapy with an EMDR therapist.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah. Somebody who's trained in EMDR. Cuz not every therapist is trained in EMDR, right?
Carrie Leaf: No.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah. We all have different trainings. What made you decide to write the book?
Carrie Leaf: Well, I, you know, like I said, I've been in this field for over a decade, um, and I don't, I don't know how to put a timeframe on it, but let's say, let's say maybe the last five years or so, five to seven years, I just started seeing, you know, um, reoccurring patterns and themes of, of my process, what was working for clients, what wasn't. And so it, the book was really just a spilling out of the things that I was basically regurgitating all day every day to the majority of my clients. The, the kind of key points, um, bullet points, basics of like, okay, it doesn't matter who you are, what you're coming for, what age you are, your history, whatever we are going to attend to and look at these things.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah.
Carrie Leaf: Um, and they'll be helpful and they've always shown to be helpful and they're where I see the most progress. So it's really that spill out of the thing that I say over and all of my clients, no matter what you're coming for and so it was a way to kinda like wrap that up, you know, and put a little bow on it and also be able to get that message out to more people than who just walk through my office door.
Jessica Fowler: Excellent, thank you. Where can our listeners find you?
Carrie Leaf: Mm-hmm. So the best place probably is gonna be my website, carrieleaf.com. Um, I try to stay on top of my Instagram, uh, @MindsetCarrie, it just changed. We're messing around. I'm, I'm kind of terrible with social media, but I try to stay up on the Instagram the, the best I can. Uh, but I would say my we website is the, the most secure carrieleaf.com. Um, there's links to the book there. Um, yes, that in the @mindsetcarrie at Instagram.
Jessica Fowler: Great. Thank you so much.
Carrie Leaf: Yes, thank you so much for having me.
Jessica Fowler: Yes, it was great talking to you today.
Carrie Leaf: You too. My pleasure.
Jessica Fowler: Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of What Your Therapist is Reading.
Make sure you head on over to the website or social media to find out if there's a giveaway going on. The information provided in this program is for educational and informational purposes only, and although I'm a social worker license in the state of New York, this program is not intended to provide mental health treatment and does not constitute a patient therapist relationship.