Episode 41: Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: What I really tried to do is drop down into the suffering that they experience and speak to the suffering, not the disorder so much, if that makes sense.
Jessica Fowler: Welcome back to What Your Therapist is Reading, your go to resource for bibliotherapy. I'm your host, Jessica Fowler. Today, we are speaking with Kimberly Quinlan, who is a licensed marriage and family therapist and has a private practice in Calabasas, California. She specializes in anxiety, OCD, and related disorders, and also eating disorders. Kimberley is also the founder of CBTSchool. com, an online psychoeducation platform that provides online courses for those with obsessive compulsive disorder and body focused repetitive behaviors. Kimberley is the author of The Self-Compassion Workbook for OCD and the host of Your Anxiety Toolkit Podcast, a podcast aimed at providing mindfulness based tools for anxiety, OCD, depression, and BFRBs.
If you are enjoying these episodes and want to support the podcast, please leave us a review. After today's episode, head on over to social media @therapybooks podcast to learn about our latest giveaway. And as always, the information shared in this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only.
Welcome back listeners. Today we are speaking with Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT about her workbook, The Self-Compassion Workbook for OCD: Lean into Your Fear, Manage Difficult Emotions and Focus on Recovery. Welcome, Kimberley.
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to dive into this workbook and talk about this because it was full of so much information.
Jessica Fowler: But before we go there, I like to ask the question, can you share a memory about reading that has impacted you?
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Sure. So, um, I actually was not a reader or a writer in my childhood or early adolescence or even an early adult. I've never really resonated with being a writer or a reader. Um, but a very dear friend of mine gave me a set of books. Um, by Thich Nhat Hanh and they're these teeny tiny books. I'll show you like this size. They're teeny tiny. Um, and they're so simple and it inspired me so much because the, each book has their own little title, like how to relax or how to be angry or how to eat or how to sit, um, how to breathe. Like they, they're so simple. And as I read them, the simplicity. Um, and that's how, that's how it's influenced everything that I do too, is like, try to make it simple and it was so moving to have it be so simple. So any of those simple hand sized books of Thich Nhat Hanh has been so impactful for me and taught me also so much about how to be a human.
Jessica Fowler: Is there any takeaway that you have from those? Or a favorite one, maybe?
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Um, I think the one how to be angry was really, really great because I think in our day we go in and we're like, why am I angry? What do I do? I'm so angry and all the things. And it was just about being with your anger and befriending your anger. And that was such a relief to me after being a therapist and having a lot of therapy and doing a lot of deep processing of anger. It was just so nice to be given direction, it's like, it's okay to be angry. Just allow your anger and be with it and, and befriend it. That was life changing.
Jessica Fowler: I would agree with that. It is life changing when we learn to do that for ourselves, right? Instead of like the fighting it, and we'll probably talk about this as we talk about your book, but the fighting it to put it away, to ignore it, to distract, to do all those things, but just sort of accepting and even befriending, like this is actually okay.
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: So I'm curious if you weren't a reader or a writer, how did that end up happening for you? How did you end up writing this book?
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Yeah. To still, to this day, to be called an author is really odd for me. Um, I am a podcaster. I'm a talker actually. That's I've always been a talker. Everyone always made fun of me. I talked all my childhood and you know, my parents actually used to pay me to not talk sometimes. And yeah, that's, some therapy has been done on that. Also..
Jessica Fowler: I wasn't gonna say anything.
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Um, I am a talker and I did, I have a podcast called Your Anxiety Toolkit, um, that talks about mindfulness and self-compassion for different anxiety disorders. And a publisher, listen to one of the episodes, she, I think she did a Google search and it showed up and, and she reached out and said, you've gotta write a book about this. Um. And I did knowing that I knew the content, but writing did not super come easy to me and it was quite a difficult process, but that's how it came about.
Jessica Fowler: Oh, that's interesting because I would not guess that from reading this book at all, because I think you write it in a way and we can, we'll, we'll say this in the book, but we'll talk about what self-compassion OCD is, but you set it up in a way that's knowledgeable, but easy to read and you incorporate four stories of examples that you use throughout the book that I really liked has as just a way of like, here's their beginning story. And this is how, um, they worked on their treatment. And it was just, it was just written in a, I don't know, a great way that was user friendly. So, I would not have guessed that.
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: I just tried to write it in the exact way that I would talk about it in session with a client and, and tried to, what I really tried to do is drop down into the suffering that they experience and speak to the suffering, not the disorder so much, if that makes sense.
Jessica Fowler: It does make sense in the book. I can totally see that. So let's hold up a little bit. So let's talk about really quick what self-compassion is, because that's part of the workbook and then OCDs, but let's start with self-compassion.
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Sure. So self-compassion is simply the act of acknowledging the suffering that you're experiencing. Um, and also the wish to alleviate that suffering by showing up for yourself in relation to that suffering in a way that is kind and gentle and effective, um, and leads you in the direction that is right for you. So, um, it can show up in many ways. It doesn't have to, you know, I think a lot of times I say this in the book, like people misunderstand self-compassion as like bubble baths and candles and you know, letting yourself off the hook all the time. And that's not what self-compassion is. In fact, self-compassion is like a real kind of courageous, you know, can be exhausting, but very, very beneficial act of showing up for you always as much as you possibly can.
Jessica Fowler: I agree with that. And then the OCD, could you share a little bit for our listeners who may not fully understand what that means?
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Sure. So, um, OCD is, um, one of the disorders I specialize. It is, uh, a disorder that involves two main components. Number one is an obsession. Um, an obsession is not like an obsession with Harry Potter or Star Wars, like we often think of it. It's not something you like to do. An obsession is an intrusive, unwanted, repetitive thought, feeling, sensation, urge, or image. But again, I want to emphasize a true obsession in, in the conversation of OCD is that it's repetitive, unwanted, and causes them a significant degree of distress. Um, I think in society, we, we think sometimes an obsession is something we really enjoy. Like I, I have, I'm obsessed with lining up my cookies correct. That would not be under the form of OCD. You also have to involve a comp, a compulsion. A compulsion is any physical or mental behavior we do to reduce or remove that obsession or that discomfort. So, in sort of Hollywood, we see a lot of hand washing. Checking doors, checking stoves, that kind of thing. And yes, that is 100 percent of one way on which OCD can show up. But a lot of people with OCD, you know, you wouldn't know they have OCD because they're not doing those physical behaviors, but they are doing mental compulsions. A lot of mental rumination, mental checking, mental reassurance seeking. So, it could be either physical or mental.
Jessica Fowler: And it's unwanted and it's exhausting.
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Yes.
Jessica Fowler: Right. I think that mental piece that people don't understand, like how much it can take up in someone and cause all that distress, because I don't want to be thinking or doing these things.
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: For sure.
Jessica Fowler: So tell our listeners, what is in your book when they pick it up?
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Sure. Um, my, when you pick up the book, my hope was, and I hope that people get this from the book, sounds like you did, which was exactly what I wanted, was I wanted to take you through the steps that I take with my clients, because it is sort of a journey. It is sort of a, it's a path that is pretty, routine. I know when you have OCD or you have any of these strong anxiety disorders, it feels so messy and so out of control and so disorganized. I wanted to give like a step by step, like here is the first step, here is the second step and give some relief there in that way.
Um, like you said, I gave four examples and they kind of come with us on this little, you know, story journey that we go on. But my hope is that we discuss the science-based treatment for OCD, which is exposure and response prevention. But every step of the way, we're addressing where the suffering shows up, where the pain points are. Is it guilt? For doing all these compulsions and missing your niece's birthday party? Is it shame for having these very graphic, very aggressive, unwanted thoughts? Is it the anger that you feel for having this disorder and the injustice of having this disorder? Is it the sadness you feel that your life is so hard because of these thoughts or these compulsions? Um, so, so, or is it just generally the anxiety and uncertainty? And so my hope was to bring in not only the science based treatment, which is ERP, but also how you can care for yourself and how you can improve your own functioning and quality of life by just being compassionate.
Jessica Fowler: Can you share a little bit about what ERP is for our listeners who don't know?
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Sure. So ERP is a form of cognitive behavioral therapy under the umbrella of cognitive behavioral therapy. Um, it basically looks at different ways that we can respond to our cognitions. Um, so instead of trying to solve them or make them go away or prevent them, um, we actually change our reaction similar to like the Thich Nhat Hanh books of acceptance, um, compassion, um, allowing them to be there non judgmentally with a lot of mindfulness. Um, and then also there is a heavy emphasis on behavioral therapy, which is where we expose to your fear or your thought or your sensation. And then we practice response prevention. So, response prevention is ultimately the reduction or elimination of that compulsion. Um, so it's, you know, exposure and response prevention must involve both the exposure portion and the response prevention. Some people believe that this is a really like cruel type of therapy, like, oh my gosh, why would I ever expose myself to my worst fear? It's already uncomfortable. It's already painful. And, and I get that as I say to every one of my clients, no one wants to do this work. This therapy is not fun. Like I don't blame you one bit for not wanting to do it, but by facing our fears compassionately. Um, we actually feel more empowered, and we feel better about ourselves. Most of the time when people come to me and they've done everything they can to avoid, reduce, suppress their thoughts and anxiety, they end up feeling really bad about themselves, feeling very disempowered, feeling very out of control, even try, they're trying to control things. Um, and so ERP is a way of, um, but also it's about making sort of giving you mastery over the fact that, you know, thoughts are thoughts. They're not facts, feelings are feelings, not facts. And how can we change your reaction to them?
Jessica Fowler: Right. Cause it's a lot of that is right. The disturbance that I cause, right. Like when we have a thought, cause if we have a thought that's not disturbing, we tend to move on. Right. it's when it's disturbing that causes that reaction in us.
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Yeah
Jessica Fowler: You set up the book in a way just for the listeners to know, and it's like three sections, right? But the first one is self-compassion. So, a lot of education about that, a lot of education about thoughts, right? Like you just said, our thoughts are not facts, they're just thoughts that we have. And then the second part is, you know, kind of working through that ERP and like how to do that. Right. And then the last part is.
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Emotions.
Jessica Fowler: Emotions. I was like, what is that?
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: No, the book would not be complete without really acknowledging all the emotions that are really painful that people with OCD experience day in and day out in extreme levels to it's not like, I mean, we all have guilt. We all have shame. We all have anger. We all have anxiety. Like, that's all true. But, um, you know, people with OCD are handling high, high levels of these emotions and we have to have skills to manage them.
Jessica Fowler: And I, I do, you said this before, but I do think you come from a place. of understanding the suffering and presenting it that way, that how much this is impacting a person. I think that's what I took away most from this book. And, you know, in addition to what to do with it, but giving that level, I think for somebody to maybe identify with like, oh, this person understands what this is like.
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: If anything, it just normalizes the experience and often just normalizing it is healing in and of itself. A lot of people who write to me and say the book like changed their life wasn't because I did anything that other books don't have. I think it was that it just validated that you're not alone and you're not crazy for feeling this way. Um, and that yes, it is very, very painful because often I think again, because society sort of, everyone says, oh, I have OCD, you know, I hear this all the time, but as if it's like just a quirky thing, instead of acknowledging, like, it's not just a quirky thing, instead of acknowledging it's an incredibly painful disorder. In fact, it's in the top 10 most debilitating medical conditions in the world.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah. How it's experienced and the loss that can happen from it, right? Like you give examples, leaving jobs, things like that. And I work in, um, I do a lot of work. One of my primary focus is the perinatal population. It's just being able to talk about OCD and the campaign with Karen Kleinman to speak the secret. I think that's what it's called. Just that idea of let's talk about what these are, right? So, we can see them to take away the stigma. And then work on them, right? Because when we keep it to ourselves, what I always say, it just gets louder and louder. The more that we try to ignore or distract, it just gets louder is the way I explain it.
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Jessica Fowler: What is, well, I guess you kind of said this, but any other takeaways you would like your readers to walk away with?
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: The, the workbook has at the beginning of each section, a letter from me. The, the letters that they're for a reason, often when we suffer, we have this inner critical voice and this is for everybody, not just for people with OCD, but the voice is so mean. And it, and because we've spoken to ourselves or someone else has spoken to us this way as a child or throughout life, we start to think that that's the only real way to motivate ourselves to get better. So, if I just beat myself up enough. I'll stop doing compulsions or I'll stop being this bad person, but we have so much research to show that that self-critical voice actually increases procrastination, increases distress, increases, um, someone's suffering over, overall. And so my, my hope is that through those letters and through the way that I put the language in the book, that you can start to understand that. You actually get to your goal through being kind, not critical. Um, and I think that's a message for all of us, therapists included, right? Like the, that, that critical voice, isn't actually a good long-term motivator, but that gentle kind coaching voice that encourages us, knows our strengths, Um, I think that the more we can sort of nurture that in our own lives and in, in other people's lives, I think the better we will all be. And I hope that that came across in the book.
Jessica Fowler: Absolutely. I totally agree with that. And who should be reading your book?
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: So, the book was specifically for two people. Um, number one, anyone who suffers with OCD, um, should read the book. Even if you've read other books about OCD or ERP, this one is a heavy emphasis on placing self-compassion at the front of treatment. Um, another one is a lot of clinicians are using the workbook as, um, you know, to structure their sessions. Um, and that brings me so much joy, however, without my knowing, a lot of feedback has also come from family members of OCD, where they're also benefiting from the book and seeing the importance of encouraging their loved one to practice compassion or encouraging their loved one about ERP.
Um, and so I've found that that has been another population I didn't know would be reading the book but has found it very beneficial.
Jessica Fowler: I can totally see that. So all of those populations, right? Like definitely therapists, that's a great way to structure your sessions. And then, you know, for somebody who's struggling, but I could see that with family members to get to learn, to have self-compassion instead of saying, you just need to stop or just get over it or what's wrong with you or whatever the things that, you know, someone can say, just do it, you know, those things. And so, I can totally see that being a way to educate family members. Like this is.
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Yeah. Yeah. And for them to see the degree of suffering, instead of just thinking like they're just being attention seekers, or they could be doing better. I think it's helpful for them to actually understand and have empathy for the person with OCD.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah. Or they could just stop if they wanted to.
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Yeah. Exactly.
Jessica Fowler: Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for sharing about your book today on the podcast. Where can our listeners connect with you?
Kimberley Quinlan, LMFT: Sure. So, uh, two places. So, my private practice in Calabasas, California is at https://kimberleyquinlan-lmft.com. Um, that's where we have clinicians who help people, um, with OCD and OCD related disorders.
Or, um, you can get, find me at cbt. com, excuse me, cbtschool.com, which is where we have online courses teaching you exactly like the book, how to, um, step by step work on specific disorders. Um, if you're on social media, you can find me at Your Anxiety Toolkit on Instagram, or we have a podcast called Your Anxiety Toolkit.
Jessica Fowler: Wonderful. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's been such an honor. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of what your therapist is reading. Make sure you head on over to the website or social media to find out about the latest giveaway. The information provided in this program is for educational and informational purposes only. And although I'm a social worker licensed in the state of New York, this program is not intended to provide mental health treatment and does not constitute a patient therapist relationship.