Episode 01: Jamie D. Roberts, LMFT
Equilibrium Counseling Services
Jessica Fowler: Welcome to what your Therapist is Reading. I'm your host, Jessica Fowler, LCSW. Today we are talking with Jamie Roberts, LMFT, about her book, Mindfulness for Teen Anxiety, A Practical Guide to Manage Stress, Ease, Worry, and Find Calm. Jamie describes herself as a colorful tattoo tiktoking neurodivergent therapist that creates a safe and affirming space for neurodivergent and LGBTQ plus youth. She says that her book is part of her mission to provide resources for youth outside of just therapy. She's the founder of Equilibrium Counseling Services, a teen and young adult mental health center in Southern California. Jamie is motivated to become the person she needed when she was younger through education and advocacy for the next generation. And please note the information shared in this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only.
Welcome back listeners. I'm excited today to have Jamie Roberts on the podcast. We're gonna be talking with her about her book, Mindfulness for Teen Anxiety. Welcome, Jamie.
Jamie Roberts: Yay. Thank you. I'm very glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Jessica Fowler: Oh, you're so welcome. So, tell us about yourself.
Jamie Roberts: Um, my name is Jamie Roberts. I am a licensed marriage and family therapist in California. Um, my first book, Mindfulness for Teen Anxiety was published this year, 2022, so it's been a very exciting adventure. Um, I also have founded a group private practice called Equilibrium Counseling Services, and we are a teen and young adult mental health center in Southern California. Um, and I specialize with neuro divergent youth, so ADHD, autism, processing disorders, dyslexia, um, and I just, I love the middle schoolers. That's my favorite group of people. So, this book is for them.
Jessica Fowler: Nice. That's awesome. Well, tell us about your book.
Jamie Roberts: So, my book is a practical guide to manage stress, ease, worry, and find calm. It's kind of a little bit of a mix of some psychoeducation, but in a very like direct, um, matter of fact, easy to grab, um, framework and then paired with some activities and exercises. So, some of the activities can be done in the book. Some of 'em are, do you take out with you into the world and it's just kind of pairs like, here's a lesson now here, try this practical activity. So, like read about it and now do it. Do it right here as you're reading or practice it today, throughout, throughout your day now as you live and try new things. So, it kind of pairs that back and forth throughout the whole, the whole book.
Jessica Fowler: So, what are some examples maybe that you could give our listeners.
Jamie Roberts: Oh, some examples. So, the favorite that I've gotten feedback on is, um, puppy language. And so, what mindfulness is, is mindfulness is being present in the moment, being in the here and now, um, and being able to reframe certain situations and have a little bit more. Nurturing or encouragement for yourself as you're taking on harder activities. And so, with, um, puppy language is we have such a negative self-talk and the things we say to ourself, what we've heard from somewhere, we've picked up along the way. And we think that kind of yelling at ourselves in our head is gonna motivate us. But with puppy language, what I encourage is talk to yourself the way you would talk to a puppy. So, if you're trying to get, take a puppy outside, get it to, to get into the crate. You don't say, Ugh, you are lazy, so and so, like, get up and move. You say, Hey, squish face, come on. I gotta treat for you. Right. So, thinking about like a teen or even adults. Mm-hmm. all of this applies for adults too.
Jessica Fowler: It does.
Jamie Roberts: Instead of the, the negative criticalness we have about like, Oh, you're so lazy, why can't you get up and just start your homework? It's, Oh man. You must be really tired. Let's find a way to make it easier to get started on that homework. Like just switching up that language. You're saying the same thing. You're moving towards the same goal, but it's less harsh. And if you won't say it to your puppy, don't say it to yourself.
Jessica Fowler: I love that if you don’t say it to your puppy, don't say it to yourself. Well, I love it cuz its self-compassion, right? So, I talk about that all the time, right? That we need some self-compassion and how we talk to ourselves, right? Cause it is, it's that tone we. The things that we say to ourself often cannot, you know, are not nice. And so, learning self-compassion can be really difficult for people. Right. Sort of making that switch and often you hear like, how would you say it to a friend? But this, I read that. I was like, oh my gosh, like, I love that. Yeah. Right. It's such a different way to start, you know, thinking about it even, you know, when you talk about changing your thoughts or like, you know, you sing it to a song or use like a funny voice or something like that. This is another way to say. Just change it.
Jamie Roberts: Exactly. Kind of takes it to the other end of the extreme, right? Mm-hmm. It's not just say it nicer, don't be so critical. It's like, how can we make this silly? Let's make this fun. What's the silly nickname you have for yourself? Yourself, like we do for our pets?
Jessica Fowler: Yeah.
Jamie Roberts: And kind of going to the extreme is like the chuckle will be like, I just talked to myself like a puppy. Okay, now I can do it. Right. It, we kind of bring it into a whole new framework of think.
Jessica Fowler: Well, and you're right too, when you said this about the book, you know it's not just for teens. I love that it's a book for teens, because the examples that you give are related to things that they would experience.
Jamie Roberts: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: But really anyone could pick it up.
Jamie Roberts: Yes.
Jessica Fowler: And read it, and it would apply. And especially if you're a parent maybe who a teen is reading it. Oh, here's a great way to read the book and understand maybe some of the things that they're working on with the exercise.
Jamie Roberts: Absolutely. Information in the book. The exercises in the book are for any age, even for younger kids. If a parent read didn't, wants to try it with a younger kid, it would work for adults. It's, it's just so like, matter of fact and easy to like grab the information on the go. Um, but yes, the examples that I give are for teens. So, it's instead of like a presentation in the classroom, think about it as like you're presenting for a board meeting.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah.
Jamie Roberts: And you can switch up those examples. Um, but I've had a lot of adults come in and say like, well I had anxiety as a teen, so maybe this will still help me. And I'm like, yes, absolutely. Um, but it's also great, like yes it is written for the teen in their language to speak directly to them. But I also add the assumption that a lot of the readers would be parents, teachers, caregivers, therapists. Cause it kind of also gives you the language to talk to the teen, to use those examples. I often like in my sessions, I've said like I'm a mediator, I'm a translator. I can translate teen language to parent language and parent language to teen language. And so, using the book, parents and caregivers can kind of see some of that switch up on how to kind of address some of the topics that we go over.
Jessica Fowler: Nice. And so, in the book, I mean its titled Mindfulness, so I was wondering if you could maybe share what mindfulness is and any other modalities that you bring into the books or listeners are aware.
Jamie Roberts: Yeah, absolutely. So, the beginning of the book kind of introduces like what mindfulness is, where it comes from, the origins in Zen Buddhism, how it has kind of evolved, how it made its way west, and how we use it now here. Um, and it's a practice of slowing down and being present and taking in all the information of our environment. So much of the time with anxiety, we're worried about what's going to happen or what has already happened.
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie Roberts: And so, it takes us away from what's happening right now. There's also tools in there for when you're anxious right now. Yeah. Because that's also true. Um, but to it uses your environment, your body, your thoughts, all of your senses to kind of connect back to the present because those might be some things you have control over, um, versus when thoughts kind of run wild with anxiety. So, we introduce, I introduce mindfulness, where it is coming from, what it looks like, different ways we can use it. The chapters of the book are broken down thoughts, emotions, behaviors, and body sensations. And so those are kind of the main topics we talk about and reference back to mindfulness. Um, similar modalities that are kind of, um, touched on in here also are DBT, which is essentially CBT plus mindfulness, right? So, it has the, the structure of cognitive behavioral t therapy, but it has the mindfulness components of being present and being in your body. And so, I really like DBT for that sense. There are a few places where I use CBT for like the thought record and some of acknowledging and keeping track of the thoughts and kind of the reframing and changing of thoughts we want to use. Um, and then I also share about strength-based therapy. That's my preferred modality because it looks it looks at what are your strengths right now?
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie Roberts: What are you good at? What's working for you now? Because yes, even if you are anxious or you have other mental health things going on, you do have strengths. Something is working because you're here. If you're picking up this book, you're in this therapy room, you're asking that friend. Those are all strengths. So how can we take the strengths that you already innately have and grow on those? This doesn't have to be a here's a brand new set of tools you've never tried before. Learn them. It can be, okay, music is your coping mechanism. Great. Let's use music in our mindfulness. When do you use it? Do you have a specific playlist for when you're sad that kind of comforts you? Do you have one that lifts your spirits when you wanna be happy? Do you have one that reminds you of that certain period of time that was good? Let's use, let's be in, um, intentional with the music and have fun with it.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah.
Jamie Roberts: So that's why I really like strength based and kind of tend to lean that.
Jessica Fowler: Well, and I love that you put, there's several in there, right? And I, cuz that's in therapy, right? The majority of us probably function that way, right? We do therapy that way. We don't stick to one form of therapy, right?
Jamie Roberts: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: We bring in the different ones depending on what's happening and what's appropriate. And this is a way to just expose, right. The people who are reading this book to different ways, right?
Jamie Roberts: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: It doesn't have to just be the CBT way or
Jamie Roberts: mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: mindfulness. How do you incorporate different things together?
Jamie Roberts: Mm-hmm. Yes, exactly. And one of the, like, I like how you said that we use different tools, we use different modalities. Um, I work primarily with neuro divergent youth, so, so ADHD, autism, processing, dyslexia. And what we notice with that, when we are looking for dopamine and we're looking for stimulation, the tool that worked for me this week might not work for me next week. If I become too routine and too used to it, it loses that stimulation and I need to switch it up. So, one thing, like how the book can be used is we talk about emotions. Well, here are five different activities to track your emotions. Use what works for you this week. Use what works for today and you can use a different one next week. And that's totally fine. Cause as long as you're keeping track of it and you're engaging with the practice, then you're doing the work, even if you have to switch it up every couple weeks.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah. And we were kind of chatting before that you had said specifically that this book is neurodivergent friendly. Right? Was that how you would say it?
Jamie Roberts: Yes. Affirming, absolutely. So even though it's not labeled or marketed that way, uh, I have ADHD and dyslexia. Most of my clients are neurodivergent in some way. So, I only put in the book the activities that I would do or that my clients have said they like, and I've gotten that feedback to know okay, these are the things that work for our neurodivergent population. Let me put that in there. I'm not gonna put anything in the book that I don't feel connected or aligned with. So, it is active, it is engaging, there is movement, there is flexibility to the activities that can fit all sorts of neurotypes and processing. Um, and so I want to make sure that that's out there as well, that this is neurodivergent affirming. It is written for us and it's accessible in that way.
Jessica Fowler: Nice. I love that. What made you decide to, uh, write the book?
Jamie Roberts: Um, I think I noticed that a lot of my clients in between session would say, I knew you told me something, but I couldn't remember what it was. Or what was that activity we did before? Or we, they'd be doing well and we'd start decreasing sessions. Or they'd go off to college and we couldn't continue cuz they went out of state. What was a way that they could take our activities or the work we're doing with them or have that resource in between, or that we had some things that were working well, let's share that with other, other people or other teens about, hey, this works for me try this to and I think that was a big, exciting piece. I mean, especially the last couple years during the pandemic of some people having limited access or being able to get in or having that distance between therapists. So much of it is happening virtual now. Yeah. How can we have more resources available or increase accessibility or just have a different way to digest the information.
Jessica Fowler: Nice. What are some like one or two things you would like people to walk away with after reading this?
Jamie Roberts: What I would like people to walk away with when they read this book is the process is always evolving. What works for you today, you may have to keep practicing or trying again later, or maybe something that didn't work the first time you read through it. Maybe in a couple months you come back to the book and now it applies and aligns that there isn't a right way to do mindfulness or a right way to use the book. That you can use it however best fits you. Yes, it's designed to start front to back, but if you wanna just pick it up and start with the activities or you wanna go straight to the thoughts, you can jump in here in pieces and use it for where you are in your experience right now. Um, that's regards like how you can use the book. What I want people to take away from it in general is we're all humans and we're all learning and we're figuring it out. And just the fact that you are reaching out for the resource or looking for additional supports means that you are breaking a cycle. The end of the book talks about being a cycle breaker and being a person who is gonna do it different. This has been something that's been difficult for me. Well, I'm gonna find a new tool or a new way so I can break my cycle, or I can break this generation cycle or this familial cycle and actually address my mental health or address my anxiety or address the boundaries in my relationships. And just by doing the work, you are already on that path.
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm. Nice. I love that. Um, cuz it is important, right, to have those and understand that you're doing something. And you know, one of the things we talked about earlier is that idea that you kind of pick up the book. There are these exercises, which I wanna, you know, make sure people understand. It's not, we're not just reading a book about anxiety. At each one. Here are some practical things that you can do. And like you said, right, it may not work this time or it may not work. Maybe it did work and it didn't. But there's also that practice too. And that understanding that I think you talk about in the book is that, you know, you have to practice at different times and we kind of have to practice when we're not escalated, right?
Jamie Roberts: Yes, yes.
Jessica Fowler: That's when it becomes a habit, right? Yes. Cause we already do what we already do when we're escalated, so we gotta,
Jamie Roberts: Yes.
Jessica Fowler: add that skill in.
Jamie Roberts: Exactly. So many of these are to just make it a part of your regular day, because if it's, if these skills are already in your regular day one, you're already decreasing or increasing your window of tolerance to be able to maybe not have as big of a reaction or have some of that cushion ready for when something happens. You have the space to choose your response. So, a lot of them are talking about like, well, what self-care do you already have worked through your day?
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie Roberts: and self-care can be as little as making sure you always have a water bottle right next to you.
That is self-care. Making sure you take bathroom breaks, making sure you get up and move your body. That is self-care. It's not just waiting till the weekend or waiting till the next break from school.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah.
Jamie Roberts: It's all day. And if I have those things, if I ate breakfast, if I ate lunch, I'm not gonna get hangry in the afternoon.
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie Roberts: And those are ways I can prepare and take care of myself to help decrease the anxiety. So, these are everyday activities. This isn't this big project that I have to do.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah.
Jamie Roberts: Or this life altering change. This is a, is there a water bottle in my backpack. Cool.
Jessica Fowler: Well in the exercises too, I like that you put this, that you say this is three minutes.
Jamie Roberts: Mm.
Jessica Fowler: Or this is 30 seconds.
Jamie Roberts: Okay.
Jessica Fowler: Right. Like that's awesome.
Jamie Roberts: Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: Cuz then somebody knows like, Oh, I don't have to do this exercise for 10 minutes.
Jamie Roberts: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: Right? I only really have to commit to 30 seconds cause I talk about that all the time when making changes and starting something like meditation.
Jamie Roberts: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: Right? I'm not asking for a 20-minute meditation. I'm asking can you try it once for 30 seconds?
Jamie Roberts: Mm-hmm, Yes.
Jessica Fowler: Let's just start there.
Jamie Roberts: Yes, exactly that. I, I love that you bring that up, that those timeframes kind of give you that permission, that like this isn't a big thing. You can do it in little chunks.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah.
Jamie Roberts: And one of the activities, like speaking of mindfulness or when you talk about meditation, a lot of people will like, Oh, I don't know if I can sit and do 30-minute meditation.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah.
Jamie Roberts: But actually, there's been research and brain scans that coloring and drawing.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah.
Jamie Roberts: Light up the same part of the brain as meditating. So especially for those of us who can't be silent for that long or can't sit still, there are activities we can do that hit the same part of the brain. If you think about. What is that thing you hyper focus on? What is that thing you get really excited about doing those activities? Doing that art project, doing that design, doing that build is meditative because you hit that relaxed zone of focus and so the book brings in those different activities you can do if just sitting silently isn't your thing.
Jessica Fowler: Well, and talking about coloring, I just wanna point out, if you're watching on YouTube. How visually I don't if you can see it, how visually appealing this book is, it is like, so I, I said in the beginning that I did not know that I needed a book like this to just read books with so much color in it. Um, it's amazing to look at. It's very pleasing.
Jamie Roberts: It gives me the, like some, like the, the doodles we do in our notebooks, like these pages in between have like the little doodle spots.
Jessica Fowler: Yes.
Jamie Roberts: Yes. And I love, like each section is a different color and it's so bright. It makes it a little less daunting to pick up and be like, Oh, I have to read about anxiety now. It's like, Oh, okay, there's, it's broken up.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah. That is such a good point, right? When you pick up a book and you see page after page of just the black and white of the thought,
Jamie Roberts: mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: right? That this is, it does, it makes it like less intimidating,
Jamie Roberts: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: to not see all of that and just see something, you know
Jamie Roberts: Yes.
Jessica Fowler: very pretty to look at.
Jamie Roberts: Exactly. Speaking of like, like splitting it up and using it that way. I've heard from some, um, some parents and some therapists that they've kind of been using the book throughout sessions. So especially a lot of times teens, I think youth are still learning their emotional language or being able to identify what the feelings and everything are. So, having that verbal expression of what's going on or what they're feeling can be hard, but being able to read through it together, or let's just open a book and do an activity together where we don't necessarily have to talk, but we can do this together, creates a new way to engage in session or in between sessions. Like, Well, you know what? Fill this out on your own time and we can talk about it next week. That'll give us the thing to work on, or this is something that you can do at home to practice what, what we're talking about in session.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah. Also, I wanna say too, I don't know if this is okay to read or not, but I'm gonna share what I loved about this book too. That you dedicated this book to yourself.
Jamie Roberts: For little me.
Jessica Fowler: Yes. Can I read it?
Jamie Roberts: Yeah.
Jessica Fowler: For my nine-year-old Jamie Danielle, the playful artist who yearned for light and hid from the shadows, due to her resiliency, determination, and perseverance, I have been able to become friends with my shadow in and freely shine the little light of mine. I love that. I love that.
Jamie Roberts: Thank you. Thank you. So much of my practice is based on becoming the person you needed when you were younger.
Jessica Fowler: Yep.
Jamie Roberts: And that's what this is. I was so anxious as a kid. I was undiagnosed ADHD and dyslexia, and I like, I struggled. And so being able to turn around and be like, Okay, here's a resource. Here's something. My inner child is Jamie, Danielle.
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Jamie Roberts: Which she struggles with. Let me provide that to other kids so that they maybe don't have to struggle in the way that she did, but she pushed through and got me here. Right?
Jessica Fowler: Yeah.
Jamie Roberts: I learned those lessons because of her. But now being able to go back and so inner child work is like so central to everything that I do, even with my teenagers, right?
Jessica Fowler: Yeah.
Jamie Roberts: What they went through when they were little or what those parts themselves showed up as and what their teen part is showing up as so that they become their adult part.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah.
Jamie Roberts: And being able to connect to all of those aspects of oneself.
Jessica Fowler: Yes. I, I definitely would say I work from a parts perspective. Um, and so just seeing that, I just got chills. I was like, I love that. I just love it.
Jamie Roberts: Oh, thank you.
Jessica Fowler: It's so much healing in that it's just
Jamie Roberts: Yes.
Jessica Fowler: like this is a big part, I'm assuming, right. Of healing, right? That you did this.
Jamie Roberts: Yes, yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's been huge.
Jessica Fowler: It's, it's a big deal. Um, so I know we kind of talked about this, so just kind of as a reminder, like who is this book for?
Jamie Roberts: This book is for the adolescent, the teenager, the young adult who is trying to understand their anxiety or trying to incorporate tools in their everyday life to decrease or have a little bit more control over their anxious feelings and thoughts by using the mindfulness tools so it's written for that person. It can also be used by parents, teachers, caregivers, therapists, to bring in those tools into the work for their teen, for their young adult, trying to understand what's going on with them. So much of this time is figuring out who am I? Who do I wanna be? And that's a lot of pressure, especially with everything we've been going through the last few years. So being able to validate and normalize that what you're feeling makes sense. It's valid. There are a lot of changes and a lot of pressures. That's normal. Being in distress is really hard. Let's decrease that level of distress.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah, I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate.
Jamie Roberts: Absolutely. Thank you for having me. This is exciting and I'm always happy to share this resource and put it out there.
Jessica Fowler: Awesome. Where is the best place for our listeners to connect?
Jamie Roberts: Ooh, to connect with me. So, I'm on Instagram and TikTok as neurodivergent therapist. You gotta be where the teens are. So, I got my TikTok going. I'm neurodivergent therapist there. Um, I also have an Equilibrium Counseling Services, Instagram and Facebook. Um, my website is equilibriumcs.com. I also have a YouTube channel, Equilibrium Counseling Services. Um, yeah. And the book is at Target, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, and I'm also selling it off my website. So, any of those options, and if you buy it from another seller, please give me a five-star review. If you buy it from me, I sign it. So, it's your choice.
Jessica Fowler: Awesome. Well thank you so much.
Jamie Roberts: Thank you so much.
Jessica Fowler: Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of what your therapist is reading. Make sure you head on over to the website or social media to find out if there's giveaway going on.
The information provided in this program is for educational and informational purposes only, and although I'm a social worker licensed in the state of New York, this program is not intended to provide mental health treatment and does not constitute a patient therapist relationship.