Episode 66: Dr. Arielle Jordan
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Let's practice real inclusion, you know, and not just have the buzzword there.
Jessica Fowler: Welcome back to what your therapist is Reading. I'm your host, Jessica Fowler. Today we are speaking with Dr. Ariel Jordan about her book United We Serve United, We Heal: A Practical Guide to Healing Racial Trauma. Dr. Arielle is a licensed clinical professional counselor specializing in EMDR, PTSD, grief and resilience. She is also an army veteran. Founder of Mindset Qualiy, Dr. Ariel's work centers on creating spaces where people feel supported to heal, grow, and thrive. After today's episode, make sure you follow us on social media attherapybookspodcast to learn about the latest giveaway. And as always, the information shared on this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only.
Welcome back. Today we are speaking with Dr. Ariel Jordan, congratulations. This is a really big deal because you recently just graduated with your PhD, so I was so excited to be able to say that. So welcome.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Thank you. What a warm welcome that is. I'm still getting used to that, so it's always fun to hear that. Thank you.
Jessica Fowler: And this is actually your second time on the podcast, so welcome back.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Thank you. Thank you for having me. I've always feel honored to talk about my work with you and know that your audience really appreciates the books.
Jessica Fowler: Yes. Um, I love sharing about books 'cause you know, everyone heals in different ways and I, for everybody going to therapy, but sometimes we need something else. And books can definitely be a part of our healing journey. So, the more we talk about them, the more they can influence people.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Absolutely.
Jessica Fowler: So, before we talk about this book, which is a bit different than your last book we talked, in some ways, not totally, but in some ways.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler: Um, I like to start with the question, change it a little bit for you is, can you share about a book that has impacted you?
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Absolutely. Um, there's a lot of books that have impacted me, so I chose like the most recent that I, that I thought about, and that's when God Doesn't Fix It, it's by Laura Story, and so she explores like the difficult reality of her husband getting diagnosed with a brain tumor. So, her life changed overnight. It left with like, it left him with lasting complications. So, the central message is that God may not always provide the solutions that we hoped for, but he still walks with us through our pain. So, I thought that was really powerful and the takeaway for me was that we don't always have the fairytale script. That we might envision, but even in our brokenness, God is still faithful. So that kind of filled my cup a little bit reading that story, although it's a, it's a very emotional story, um, depending on what you're going through in life. But I felt like, wow, this is very powerful because how many times do we think like it's supposed to be perfect and it's just not so accepting that reality is a way to move you forward. That's kind of what I talk about over and over again. You know, with speaking, with writing books, with therapy, I talk about the same thing that this book embodied. So, I thought it was so cool to come across this book.
Jessica Fowler: Oh, that's wonderful. Thanks for sharing. I will have to check that one out. And so with your book, right, United We Serve, United We Heal. You are a vet. And so you talk about this in this book, and so can you share what your intention is, what your hope is for your readers?
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Yeah, so always I wanna provide strategies even with my last book, that's kind of the. The thought that's in the back of my head when I'm thinking about what's the purpose of writing this. So I, for this particular book, I wanna provide strategies and insights that have to do with racial trauma, and I want to empower individuals to start that conversation. We have a lot of pain when it comes to racial trauma, that's not talked about. And so, talking with different Vets, different Vets of color that have experienced this trauma, it's like when you see another Vet of color, they, you already know they have a story and it's like within this small community, no one's really talking about it as to another person who had a wonderful experience in the military will look at my experience and say, wow, that's completely different. So, my purpose was to start the conversation because we need collective healing in our communities. So, no matter what we look like, we have to kind of talk about what, where we're lacking so that we can get better.
Jessica Fowler: And so, in this book, how do you, how do you set this up and how do you do that in this book.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: So, I went through each chapter and I tried to introduce a military term and define the term, and then I used stories of where I could talk about some of the racial things that are embodied in the system. So, I started to talk about what some of my challenges were. And then I brought in my framework. So, my framework has to, I use the acronym STARS and I talk about self-awareness, thought patterns, authenticity, radical acceptance and success. So, it's kind of like a map, like each one leads to the other, and at the end we hope for success to, to guide you through that understanding and that overcoming of this internalized trauma that happens with these remarks or with these systems that are in place. And it seems like all the things are working against you. I want people to leave knowing that even with all of that, you still can heal from it.
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm. And in it, I mean even in the cover, you inside, like one of the first pages you talk about. The symbolism within the cover. You were vulnerable in the book.You start with a military term and then you share something that happened to you, and then applying this framework.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Yes.
Jessica Fowler: Is part of the healing, what's that like for you to share some of your experiences? I always think it's interesting as therapists, right? We're always told you're not supposed to say anything.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Yes, it, it's,
Jessica Fowler: and I love interviewing therapists 'cause they're like, and I shared this thing about myself.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: So, there's that aspect of it. And then there's also the safety aspect of being in the service too. So, you're taught, you know, a certain way to withhold information for safety reasons. So, I'm not going to maybe post on, on social media where my training is because it might. Not be appropriate or it might put others at risk or whatever. So, you kind of learn like all these security features and stuff like that. And then when you get out the deprogramming, I guess it's is the start of the deprogramming, but really there's not enough of it. So, you still have that aspect. And I think it was hard for me to start speaking because, just like you said, like we have to share a little bit about ourselves, and that's hard. So, I know that going through these stories, trying to pick out what is relevant for this book and what's relevant for others to know was a little bit challenging. How to push myself to say, okay, you know what, I'm, I'm not harming anybody. I'm really just telling my story and no one knows my story better than me. So, how do I structure my story in a way that is helpful to other people? So, working through that process was very interesting. It took a lot of like reflective journaling and a writing coach to help me and say, “Hey, what are you doing?” You said you wanted to do this, you know, and keep me on track. So that was helpful too.
Jessica Fowler: Do you maybe wanna share like an example of how the framework stars works?
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Yeah, I can share an example. Um. I'm thinking one of the stories that I shared was about the weight, like the heightened weight that we have to do, and I shared that it's based off of a European scale, so it doesn't take in account for different bodies, different shapes, different sizes. And so I know for me it looked like, almost like I was doing something wrong every time, even though I would pass my PT test, I would pass my physical fitness test, um, every time I, I had to go to the height and weight with fear because I, I knew I wasn't gonna pass that because my body is just shaped differently. And there was another, uh, black woman that was a first Sergeant that was like, yeah, that's kind of just part of it for me, for however many years and we started to talk about how there's no like room for differences here. There's only one way and this is the way to do it. And if you're not this, then um, you're, you're wrong or you have to like do an extra step or whatever. So, how that relates to the framework is there has to be self-awareness there for me to notice like, wait a minute, I'm still passing my physical fitness test. I just, I look different than maybe the standard says I should look and changing the thought patterns of it's actually okay for, for me to be who I am authentically going into the authenticity. I can show up as myself. I'm still passing. So, it's kind of like working your way through that thought process. The radical acceptance part is that I can't do very much about it, but I can only do what I can so I can advocate, I might not like it or condone it, but I can advocate that, hey, there's actually other bodies out here that still fit the standard. There's, they just don't fit that particular standard. So, can we have maybe a couple other options, you know, and advocate for that? And the success part means that, you know, I successfully conquered that particular challenge. So, I learned that throughout the service that there's, there's many things that I might not like or condone, but I also don't have to let it defeat me either. So that was just an example of one of the stories I shared in the book. And then you can apply it in organizational structures too, like what's, practice real inclusion, you know, and not just have the buzzword there, like, this is how we do this, or here's some suggestions of how we can do this.
Jessica Fowler: Well, and I thought your examples were very relevant. Like I can see how those can play out. Um, just some of your experiences from where you were employed in the military, how you were treated and things like that. And so.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: I think, um, one, the reason why I said that is because somebody was looking for a book, um, about like workplace wellness, and I was like, my book could apply, but I guess they read the title and they're like, no, we're not talking about the military, but if you go through it, it still can apply to your organization. It doesn't necessarily have to be the military that it applies to. So those, it carries over into like an organization we still can consider, like what, what policies do we have that are outdated that we might need to update because if we're looking at um, the United States history as a whole, there's a lot of coloni, colonization. Oh my gosh. I don't know why I can't say that word today. Um, so when we're talking about where everything came from, colonialism, so all of it probably needs to be updated in my opinion. So, I just try to have these conversations because it challenges you to think a little bit differently.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah, I can see that. I mean, it is, for the military and the suggestions you make, but I can see how it can be applied to other organizations too. It's really just bringing some, like you give some examples, it really just bring attention of what this can look like. Like you know, what microaggressions can look like and just being aware of it and what you can do differently.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Mm-hmm.
Jessica Fowler:And those situations, but also as a whole, how to make changes.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Yeah. I was just having a conversation with a client the other day that it. I found this YouTube video. It was like a two-minute video, but they said that it microaggressions is like a mosquito bite. So, like, we all know what a mosquito bite feels like. It's annoying, it's itchy. Um, and when you have one, it's, it's not a big deal. But when you have hundreds and they're every single day. It becomes a more of an annoyance and more an intolerable and, and it, it's it, you know, think about mosquito bite. It's itchy. It's, I can't stand it anymore, you know, and, and it grows and all of a sudden you're angry 'cause I, I can't stop itching. But it's, it's the same thing. Like, here's this, here's another comment. And you think about like, smacking the mosquito. There's another comment and another, and another, and it's every day. And so, like in these organizations, that it's happening all the time. I hear it in my therapy sessions all the time. However, I don't, I don't always talk to the people that are doing it all the time, so that's a little bit more challenging. So, my hope is that the book would spread and people would have these conversations, but we have to start somewhere.
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm. You even talk about it in the book, that leadership mattered in those situations, whether or not you addressed it. In some situations it wasn't safe to say anything and then others you felt like you had some support and could say something.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Yeah. Yep. And a lot of time I, I didn't feel like I could say anything or that it would matter if I did. So, I kept a lot of things to myself and even I even thought about that writing the book, like it almost seems like I'm not supposed to write this, or I'm not supposed to say this, or whatever, but it is like, wait a minute, I'm out. I'm not there anymore.
Jessica Fowler: Mm-hmm.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: So, I'm, and I'm not telling a story that, um, to hinder the image of the military, it still made me who I am. Um, I still value a lot of the things I learned. It's just that certain parts of that could have been different. And so now I wanna be that support that I didn't have. So that's what I'm offering to others. Like, yeah, we can still talk about it. Any job has its bad pieces,it’s bad parts, but they don't have to stay that way we can actually continue to improve.
,Jessica Fowler: Right. It's just advocating for some change. Right. Absolutely. To make it, to make it better. In this country, we have a long history. And so recognizing that, recognizing the implications that have had on people and how do we do better?
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Mm-hmm. And I think it's just, let's not pretend like it's anything else. Let's just call it what it is and then talk about how we can fix it.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah. Right. That's how I look at this book. It's how do you heal yourself and how do you create some change within, in this case, the military, but other organizations too?
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Yeah, so I, I, I talked to and I reach a lot of vets, so I decided to use that for this particular book, but I, I feel like, maybe it could apply in a professional development way as well. So, I've been kind of playing with that too, using my book to do that as well. But it still goes back to the general purpose of like, let's just start the conversation.
Jessica Fowler: I love that you, you know, are finding that way to help support vets and help support clinicians like me who, you know, may work with a vet and can have resources to help somebody.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Yeah, I hope that does continue to plant the seed and allow us to widen our scope a bit more. And, I mean, there's so many things we could talk about and, and hone in on, but you know, this is just one of 'em.
Jessica Fowler: Yeah. Who do you say who should be reading your book, or who's your book for?
Dr. Arielle Jordon: My book is for Vets of Color. Who have experienced this racial trauma is for leadership that wants to see a change in real inclusion. Um, and to understand what some of those experiences might be like and really for just general population that's curious about what this topic is about. Um, it could be intimidating 'cause I put military terms in there, but my hope is that I define them well enough that you like, oh, I just learned a military term. That's cool. So, it's not discourage you from reading it.
Jessica Fowler: I, I, you know, I was not in the military. I read it. I thought you did a good job explaining it. So I got it.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Good. Because what one of my friends had gave me that feedback and I'm like, no, no, no. Keep reading. Keep reading. It's in there. I defined it. I related it to what I was talking about. It's relevant, I promise.
Jessica Fowler: I think it, I think you can follow it. It makes sense in that way. So, well, thank you so much for coming on today and talking about your book. Where is the best place for our listeners to connect with you?
Dr. Arielle Jordon: They can connect with me on Instagram, @ArielnJordan, all one word, and my website is the same. So, ArielnJordan is the thing to, to know my first name, N for my middle, initial and last name.
Jessica Fowler: Wonderful. Well, thank you so much.
Dr. Arielle Jordon: Thank you.
Jessica Fowler: Thank you for listening to this week's episode of what your therapist is reading. Make sure you head on over to the website or social media to find out about the latest giveaway. The information provided in this program is for educational and informational purposes only, and although I'm a social worker licensed in the state of New York, this program is not intended to provide mental health treatment and does not constitute a patient therapist relationship.
About the author:
Dr. Arielle Jordan shares her expertise as a trauma therapist and Army veteran. She brings over nine years of experience as a licensed clinical professional counselor, specializing in EMDR, PTSD, grief, and resilience. Founder of Mindset Quality and ArielleNJordan.com, Dr. Arielle's work centers on creating spaces where people feel supported to heal, grow, and thrive. As an author of Holding Space and United We Serve, United We Heal, her insights on overcoming adversity and mental wellness are both empowering and relatable. Learn more at ariellenjordan.com.